Path: cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!magnesium.club.cc.cmu.edu!news.sei.cmu.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.service.uci.edu!unogate!mvb.saic.com!zippy.telcom.arizona.edu!arizona.edu!arizona!amethyst!organpipe.uug.arizona.edu!hindmost!brianNewsgroups: talk.religion.miscSubject: Re: [rw] Is Robert Weiss the only orthodox Christian?Message-ID: <1993Apr27.001326.26727@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu>From: brian@lpl.arizona.edu (Brian Ceccarelli 602/621-9615)Date: 27 Apr 93 00:13:26 GMTSender: news@organpipe.uug.arizona.eduReferences: <C5vGyD.H7s@acsu.buffalo.edu> <1993Apr23.170101.19708@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu> <sandvik-250493171350@sandvik-kent.apple.com>Organization: Lunar & Planetary Laboratory, Tucson AZ.Lines: 62>I'm curious to know if Christians ever read books based on critique>on the religion, classical text such as "Age of Reason" by Paine,>or "The Myth Maker" by Jacobi. Sometimes it is good to know your>enemy, and if you want to do serious research you have to understand>both sides, and not solely the one and only right one.Yes, one does.  I examined a critique of the Book of Romans byI think, Benjamin Franklin once, a Deist.  I found it amazing thatBenjamin Franklin missed the whole boat.   I also have the writingson Thomas Jefferson sitting on my shelf, and it is amazing howmuch he missed.  I have studied Plato's Theory of Forms and Aristotelian Hylomorphesism.  What a pile of junk.  Jesusmakes Plato and Aristotle look like kindergardeners.  Psychology,the id, ego, superego by Freud?  Elements of truth, but Jesusexplained it far better and gave reasons.Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson are mere men.  Theycan screw up the Bible just as well as any man.  I do not put thesemen on a pedestal.  And if I remember T.J.'s autobiography correctly,he thought Thomas Paine was the most unread man he ever met.Here's some more circular reasoning to you.  Paul says to the Corinthiansthat "that the gospel will be foolishness to the world, because it is spiritually discerned."  And so, people without the spirit of God haven't aclue to what the Bible is saying.   From your point of view, that'sincredibly circular and convenient.   To me, it is mysteriously and supernaturallybizarre.   I can see it, but you can't.  This is not arrogance onmy part.  Trust me.  It is as bizarre to you as it is to me.  But nonetheless,it is a truth, explainable or not.Are any of you color blind to red and green?  I am.  Remember thosedot tests they do at the optomologist's?  They put pictures in frontof you and you are supposed to identify the pattern in the dots?  Ifyour eyes are perfectly normal, you can see letters or numeralsembedded in the dots.  They are a slightly different color and standout from the background.  But if you are color blind to red and green,you will not see anything but gray-shaded dots.  That is how a dottest appears to me.  I do not see a pattern at all.A normal seeing person will see the patterns.  And to him, I seem like atotal anomaly.  To him, I appear as if I am missing the universe or something.It is hard for him to understand why I can't see anythingthat to him is as plain as day.That it what it is like with the Bible, the Word of God, to the believer.The believer can see the meaning in the words.  I can see how the patternsfit together.  There is such depth.  Such consistency.   But then, on theother hand, I notice the non-believer.   He doesn't see it.  He thinksI am weird because he thinks I am seeing things.   I look at him, andsay, "No, you are weird.  You do not see."   Then it is time for a sanitycheck.  I go to another Christian and say, "Do you see this."  Andthey go, "Yes.  It is an "X"".  And I say, "Thank God, I see the "X"too."It is truly the strangest thing.   It adds a little extra dimension tothe phrase,          "He will make the blind see, and the deaf hear."I am glad that Jesus has enabled me to see.  I wish every non-believercould see what they are missing.